Tube Amp Forum: The Ultimate Tone

Ping Makinrose

While i currently have the new amp apart to add a negative feedback switch, I tried another  Fender amp  I've mildly modded I lovingly call a SuperVibroDeluxeReverb  <grin> I just had to try it through the Jensen C12N and I'm frankly so stoked right now.

All the clips I've posted were through 2 old Bassman 10 speakers made by CTS and apparently, unlike Tweed 4x10 Bassman (multi purpose 10s), were actually dedicated Bass Guitar speakers.  The 10s have a bit more punch but the Jensen C12N already, after less than 20 minutes of play time, sound pretty freaking amazing.  My new amp sounds substantially better than the SuperVibroDeluxeReverb, excepting built-in Reverb and Trem - but the new Amp has a great F X Loop, so I can at this point only imagine what the New Amp will benefit from the Jensen even before it's broken in!

So check this out.  It's the Silvertone 2  x Lipstick Tube guitar, cycled through Neck>Both>Bridge in a slow and simple chord progression test, with both channels fairly high but guitar Volumes at about "6" (Bridge is a bit louder since it still has the original 100K Volume pot and comes on way faster than the modded Neck control 250K at "6") with just a bit of Reverb and Trem.

https://on.soundcloud.com/YJZ4Z

Thanks again for your warning but you mean this is actually gonna get SWEETER !!???!!

New Pics -

I think we are in the final stages now. The only things left to do mostly involve a few parts on the way.

I have on order

1) Stainless Steel angle brackets for anti vibration mounting of a low noise cooling fan. It's not meant to be a whirlwind, just a bit of air circulation to keep temperatures stable to (a) maintain tone performance over a wide range of temperature environments, and (b) increase tube life

2) 2 Prong AC cable and jacks so the fan always switches on with the amp power switch but can be quickly disconnected for disassembly.

3) Fender Tilt-Back Legs for angling the amp up at the player's ears, reducing stage bleed but focusing on what the player needs to hear.

This is a photo summary of progress awaiting those parts.

120VAC Low Noise Fan





Baffle Installation and Speaker Mounting



Back Plate Design for effective port system to maximize cooling air flow while providing a bit more punch and articulation in the low end, especially needed in such a small cabinet



I probably should give a shout out to "tubesandmore/antiqueelectronics" online parts store for many of these new and vintage parts. They've been great to work with and a valuable resource.

Nice sounds! Yes, give it about 20 to 30 hours of play and the bass will be deeper and the high end a little mellower....

It took longer than I had projected but I finally have a half decent recording with real audio gear instead of just an Android phone. Please note this is intended to demonstrate the timbre and touch sensitivity of the amp dead clean and completely raw and unaltered, not to dazzle with playing, effects or style. That will come soon. This is the basics 'cuz everything begins there.

Also please note if you are not already aware that seriously pro amps don't make for ease of playing. That's for beginners. Serious amps designed for artists show every little mistake because that's what happens when an amp is also capable of displaying every subtle nuance in your play style. In this case I made some truly n00b mistakes so try to see that for what it demonstrates of amp response, not playing quality.

This was recorded with an SM-57 and a Scarlet Focusrite Solo as a Mono track with no frills, plugins, effects or alterations of any kind other than Volume Normalization to bring the playback volume up but with not even any limiting.

The Mic was placed about 2 inches from the grille cloth pointing directly at the spot where the dust cover joins the cone on the Jensen C12N. I didn't yet use the Line Outs. It's just the USB interface into Audacity. The guitar is the Lipstick Tube Silvetone beginning on the neck pickup and then, audibly, switching near the middle to the Bridge pickup.

My amp was set as follows

Gain = Off
Volume = 4
Bright = On
Treble = 6
Middle = 2
Bass = 5
Master/Return = 3
Negative Feedback Switch = On (for max clean power)

I'll post one in the next couple days with humbuckers, with a good player within the next 10 days, and in a band context sometime in August.


[SOUNDCLOUD]https://soundcloud.com/enorbet2/new-focusrite-w-sm57-clean?si=d5e0a30d4894469c9a7ec2b969aa0b14&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing[/SOUNDCLOUD]

https://soundcloud.com/enorbet2/new-focu...al_sharing[

I'd really appreciate any tips on digital recording of lone guitar to get a great sound (my DAW skills are rudimentary at best) but, frankly, I have no notifications or any way of knowing if anyone is even visiting this thread... but I'll try one more time.

https://soundcloud.com/enorbet2/longedge...al_sharing

(07-22-2023, 07:39 PM)enorbet2 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd really appreciate any tips on digital recording of lone guitar to get a great sound (my DAW skills are rudimentary at best) but, frankly, I have no notifications or any way of knowing if anyone is even visiting this thread... but I'll try one more time.

https://soundcloud.com/enorbet2/longedge...al_sharing

At the very bottom of the page, on the left, there should be a button to subscribe to the thread and you should be able to choose to receive email notifications of new posts. Hopefully that helps. With respect to recording, I'd say try playing with mic placement and angles. I'm no expert either, but I've been able to record doubled guitar tracks using Ardour (free and open-source DAW) and a cheapo mic and/or my android phone's mic that aren't horrendous. Mic placement has a lot to do with it from what I've found. In the link below is a doubled guitar track I recorded on my galaxy S7, then dropped into Ardour to do the time alignment and panning for the stereo effect. My phone was just resting on my knee about level with the right-side center of the 4x12, and about 20-40cm back from it, with the phone mic pointed straight towards the baffle. Moving the phone around shifted the way things sounded once recorded. Sorry I can't be more of a help; like I said, still new to recording as well. If I find out how to attach the file to the post or embed it instead of link to a web page, I will. Best of luck!

https://tilde.town/~ramenbytes/

Thanks very much, physics.  As a salutation I'd like to invite you to

https://www.physicsforums.com/    ...  if you're not already a member or visitor. 

Some message boards provide direct wrappers for select links like YouTube and Soundcloud.  This one doesn't or at least I haven't found the means. 

I found your blending phone with PC very interesting and also quite decent, though short.

I am aware of the intricacies of mic placement having spent the better part of 50 years in audio but primarily in analog.  I've toyed with digital only in the last 10 years and mostly in an effort to salvage old cassette live recordings.  I've been using Slackware Linux as my Main daily driver since late 1999 and I startyyed using Ardour when Mr Davis called it "pre alpha" lol.  It didn't even have an INSTALL text file and the README just said "It's pre-alpha.  This is just public documentation and I can't be bothered fielding tech support.  I'm too busy getting to alpha.  Maybe by beta release I'll include installation instructions".  That's paraphrased but is basically what he said   

I've been posting mostly clean and clean- ish  clips here and I see you are into Metal and I'm fascinated you're playing EVM-12Ss .  The only other player I've known in half a century in Music is David Lindley.  Back in the '80s I took a forerunner of this new amp down to an intimate DC club where his band, El Rayo X, was playing for an afternoon sound check.  Back then he was the only player I knew who was using Dumble amps and I wanted his opinion and even criticisms.  He asked me what speaker was in my combo and it made me grin because it was an oddball cast frame Celestion that hasn't been made now for decades because it didn't sell well compared to the much cheaper stamped frame models.  I grinned because I could see the puzzlement on his face and then I commented that he had just confirmed for me I picked the right first guy because he obviously knew that he knew most common speakers so well and he couldn't place this one.

Anyway, though I'm not a chug! kinda guy I do enjoy some serious fuzz and I know a lot of players wanna hear hi gain.   So here's one just for you....

https://on.soundcloud.com/x7tFD

Here's one that' I posted to another message board in response to the all-too-common misconception that you need an amp under 5 watts to record in a bedroom or apartment.  Regardless of what many charts show, I've measured SPLs in restaurants and nightclubs and fairly soft table conversation has common peaks of around 75-80db, averaging around 68-72db C-Weighted.  65db is probably at least A-Weighted and I'm guessing also quite conservative and hardly real world representative.

In any case this recording was made with an SM57 right on the grille cloth pointed at the joint of the dust cap and cone, at peaks of 78db on my handheld SPL meter at 1 meter distance.  I could hear the strings acoustically at least as loud as the amp.  It's a mono track so I just quick 'n dirty dumped it into Audacity where, in Post I added, Reverb, Delay, and Normalized Volume.  In my view it sounds bad but it doesn't sound thin or wimpy.  I'd love to hear your reactions on either or both of these.


https://on.soundcloud.com/b16EJ


Thanks. again, Brother.

OOPS! Forgot to mention that first clip is Iron Bell Fuzz on 100% of the recording. Increases and decreases in gain are strictly guitar Volume control.

the 2nd clip is no effects, just the amp with both Volume and Gain around "7". Master Volume just cracked open slightly. I never play that distorted so I don't need the Master to use a Log-Log Taper to flatten it out any more than it is but it's easily done.

(08-07-2023, 10:01 AM)enorbet2 Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks very much, physics.  As a salutation I'd like to invite you to

https://www.physicsforums.com/    ...  if you're not already a member or visitor. 

Some message boards provide direct wrappers for select links like YouTube and Soundcloud.  This one doesn't or at least I haven't found the means. 

I found your blending phone with PC very interesting and also quite decent, though short.

I am aware of the intricacies of mic placement having spent the better part of 50 years in audio but primarily in analog.  I've toyed with digital only in the last 10 years and mostly in an effort to salvage old cassette live recordings.  I've been using Slackware Linux as my Main daily driver since late 1999 and I startyyed using Ardour when Mr Davis called it "pre alpha" lol.  It didn't even have an INSTALL text file and the README just said "It's pre-alpha.  This is just public documentation and I can't be bothered fielding tech support.  I'm too busy getting to alpha.  Maybe by beta release I'll include installation instructions".  That's paraphrased but is basically what he said   

I've been posting mostly clean and clean- ish  clips here and I see you are into Metal and I'm fascinated you're playing EVM-12Ss .  The only other player I've known in half a century in Music is David Lindley.  Back in the '80s I took a forerunner of this new amp down to an intimate DC club where his band, El Rayo X, was playing for an afternoon sound check.  Back then he was the only player I knew who was using Dumble amps and I wanted his opinion and even criticisms.  He asked me what speaker was in my combo and it made me grin because it was an oddball cast frame Celestion that hasn't been made now for decades because it didn't sell well compared to the much cheaper stamped frame models.  I grinned because I could see the puzzlement on his face and then I commented that he had just confirmed for me I picked the right first guy because he obviously knew that he knew most common speakers so well and he couldn't place this one.

Anyway, though I'm not a chug! kinda guy I do enjoy some serious fuzz and I know a lot of players wanna hear hi gain.   So here's one just for you....

https://on.soundcloud.com/x7tFD

Here's one that' I posted to another message board in response to the all-too-common misconception that you need an amp under 5 watts to record in a bedroom or apartment.  Regardless of what many charts show, I've measured SPLs in restaurants and nightclubs and fairly soft table conversation has common peaks of around 75-80db, averaging around 68-72db C-Weighted.  65db is probably at least A-Weighted and I'm guessing also quite conservative and hardly real world representative.

In any case this recording was made with an SM57 right on the grille cloth pointed at the joint of the dust cap and cone, at peaks of 78db on my handheld SPL meter at 1 meter distance.  I could hear the strings acoustically at least as loud as the amp.  It's a mono track so I just quick 'n dirty dumped it into Audacity where, in Post I added, Reverb, Delay, and Normalized Volume.  In my view it sounds bad but it doesn't sound thin or wimpy.  I'd love to hear your reactions on either or both of these.


https://on.soundcloud.com/b16EJ


Thanks. again, Brother.

OOPS!  Forgot to mention that first clip is Iron Bell Fuzz on 100% of the recording.  Increases and decreases in gain are strictly guitar Volume control.

the 2nd clip is no effects, just the amp with both Volume and Gain around "7". Master Volume just cracked open slightly.  I never play that distorted so I don't need the Master to use a Log-Log Taper to flatten it out any more than it is but it's easily done.

From what you say, it sounds like I'm the one who should be asking you for recording advice. I'm curious, which Celestion was that? Sidewinder? S303 Gold?

With respect to the recordings, I can't say anything much that you didn't already say. The second recording does sound bad to me as well, but without being thin or wimpy. Sorta low-fi, Not sure what would cause that, since you're using a standard mic and presumably a good speaker (Jensen, was it?). The first clip with the fuzz sounds better to me. Perhaps the distortion masks the issues present in the second recording? I'll have to listen again. It occurs to me that it sounds similar to something I've heard before. What are the specs on the cab you're using?

Also, didn't realize that you had mostly been looking at clean stuff, I only read the most recent post or two from you before originally commenting. Sorry about that.

(08-07-2023, 10:01 AM)enorbet2 Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks very much, physics.  As a salutation I'd like to invite you to

https://www.physicsforums.com/    ...  if you're not already a member or visitor. 

I am not yet, thanks for bringing it to my attention!

I don't know if it's my settings or if this website is more attractive to Hi Fi Reproduction as opposed to musical instrument application, but I can't tell if anyone other than those that respond is even reading this thread let alone getting anything useful from it.

So instead of continuing to post new clips as changes are made, I'll simply mention that I bought a Celestion Type A (American Voice) 12 inch speaker initially for a Blackface Deluxe Reverb amp I plan to sell. However the main difference between it and the Jensen C12N is that the Celestion has a lot more (and tighter) bottom end and I may end up switching them out, putting the Jensen in the Fender and the Celestion in my amp. I'm thinking such a swap benefits both.

Hmm, I see what you mean. Only place that view counts are shown appears to be on the board page. It also appears that despite being subscribed to this thread, I was not emailed about your recent reply, though I had selected to have that happen in thread subscription. Odd.

OK finally I got a full band live recording to demonstrate how a finely tuned and voiced guitar amp sits in the mix at Edge-of-Breakup. Notice everybody is always audible including every guitar note yet it never steps on anyone.

https://vimeo.com/888381656/649c27e456?share=copy